Monday, November 2, 2015

Astro nostalgia: My vintage scope collection

Isn't it funny how a lot of our life choices are dictated by a certain time point in our development. For me, I seem to be stuck in an eternal 80's loop. All my hobbies, my music choices, etc are 80's centric. Well I was born in the early 70's, but did most of my growing up in the late 70's and early to mid 80's when I started to take note of the world around me. Amateur astronomy was a big part of those years. Star Wars burst onto the big screen in 1977 and that had a HUGE influence on me! The telescope was like my X Wing fighter as I took off to the stars every clear night at my parents yard. I remember those years as they were just yesterday, getting my first scope, a dodgy plastic objective, plastic body tabletop toy 40mm scope with eyepieces the size of a peashooter. I would later come into the possession of my dad's beat up 20x50mm porro prism Japanese made binoculars, and a Celestron Cometron CO40 with real two element fully coated achromatic objectives. I used the buggery out of those two to observe celestial bodies and deep sky objects, moving around my parents front lawn, yard, and even climbed onto the roof to spy Halley's Comet in the predawn sky. Contrary to what most beginners experienced (maybe it was just my tenacious scientific nature), the small aperture did not deter me from digging deep and trying to see as much as I could. I remember going to the libraries to look for star charts, and writing to the local astronomical society, based in my country's capital of Kuala Lumpur. I exchanged several letters with Professor SM Chong as he gave me tips and sent me photocopies of star charts, etc. I will never forget his patience, mentoring this young budding scientist. Thank you prof if you ever read this!!!! I also exchanged several letters with the BAA in UK. I did not have the money back then to join any society but they were very patient and sent me photocopies, just like prof.

Upon reflection, I now realise that the bulk of my observing menagerie consist of used scopes which I purchased over the years via Astromart getting back into the hobby in 2001. I put together a list, as well as photographs of me and my scopes! The trend continues on till today. Most of my scopes are Celestron's (my first scope was a Celestron), and all of them belong to the 80's. Enjoy!

Turn back the clock (by Johnny Hates Jazz):

Celestron Cometron CO40 (40mm f/20) Alt Az Japan (mid 80's vintage)

The scope that started it all for me. I know its extremely small by today's standard's, and most would probably label this as a CTT. Celestron had these for sale to capture the Halley's Comet craze flyby. The optics are fully coated but this scope showed me so much, from Saturn's rings and Jupiter's belts and moons to deep sky delights such as M8 and M22. Scope has the nostalgic Cometron orange bakelit tube, 5x24 stoppered down finderscope with metal base, a plastic body prism diagonal and a 25mm Celestron Kellner and a 8mm Celestron HM in 0.965" size.

Celestron Cometron CO60 (60mm f/15) achromatic refractor on Vixen Polaris Mount EQ (mid 80's vintage)


"Celestron Cometron CO60EQ"

This is the scope that ended my search for the ultimate vintage 60mm scope, having gone through no less than five 60mm scopes (Kasai 60mm ST, Yosco 60mm, its alt az brother CO60, Orion OmniVista 60mm ST, Meade 226 60mm and even a Burgess 65mm BackPacker ED). Its long focal length does extremely well to suppress chromatic aberration yielding very neutral color images, similar to the above scope. The scope came with the same crappy stoppered down 5x24mm eyepiece with metal base, a much better metal bodied prism diagonal and just one eyepiece, a 10mm Celestron Kellner in the 0.965" size. The best part of this ensemble is the mount that comes with the scope, the much vaunted Vixen Polaris mount. This mount it totally overkill for the scope, and back in the day came packaged with their 80mm and C6 scopes!!!!!!

Edmund Astroscan (105mm f/4.2) newtonian reflector (unknown vintage)


"The dimunitive Edmund Astroscan"

Always wanted one of these bombproof scopes. Glad I got one since Edmund is currently no longer manufacturing them! I know the parabolic optics are sealed and non collimatible and it is only good for low powered wide field scanning but boy is this scope a joy to use, so long as you have something to set it on. All you need is a dark sky, some sort of pointing device (since its hard to sight down the tube due to its bulbous back). My favourite eyepiece to use with this scope is my 13T6 Nagler! Since I got this used, it did not come with the original eyepieces, the Edmund RKE eyepieces. Also there was no non powered finder on mine so I got a red dot finder for the scope. I plan to hand this scope down to my lil one in the future. In fact she has already started using it! Came with the shoulder strap and metal base.

Celestron Vixen C6 (6" f/5) newtonian reflector mounted on Vixen Porta Mount (mid 80's vintage)


"Celestron C8 SCT"

My first real scope was a beat up C6 with super excellent optics that constantly surpassed the views in other Chinese and Taiwanese made 6" f/5 scopes. I think it was the "special" coatings on the optics cause my scope constantly went deeper in comparison to the mentioned (compared side by side with other 6" f/5 scopes). Gorgeously sharp views of Jupiter's cloud belts, the big red spot (salmon spot ;), Saturn's Cassini's Division and C ring and super sharp views of DSO's. Fave eyepiece to use in this scope was the Orion Expanse 20mm. Surprisingly very little detectable coma for such a fast scope! There are some caveat's though. The sliding focuser takes a little getting used to and personally I prefer rack and pinion or Crayford focusers. Also the secondary mirror is a little larger than required for visual use, although the stated literature says that this is required for full field immunimation for astrophotography. Since I got the OTA only, there was no finder, mount or eyepiece on mine. I used it on am EQ3-2 mount for years, and recently on a Vixen Porta Mount. Now that I have a Polaris mount (see above), I hope to get a new set of tube rings so I can mount this on the mount it was old with!!!

Celestron C8 (8" f/10) SCT mounted on Orion VersaGo III (mid 80's vintage)


"Celestron-Vixen C6 Newtonian"

My current largest scope and what a performer!  Replaced my bulky but trusty 10" dobsonian with this OTA. I am beginning to understand the allure of a large SCT! You do see much more sitting down and observing. I was always bending and contorting when using my dob, even when seated as I did not have one of those fancy adjustable astro chairs! Views are just as bright and detailed as in my 10" dob, and it is so much easier to move around (big factor for me as I like moving around the yard when observing). Also great when I was living in a two storey apartment, and we did not have a lockup garage. With this scope I can carry the whole observing rig in one sitting. With the dob it was two trips, the tube and then the mount. Although not super heavy, it was super awkward to move due to the length and girth of the optical tube. All I got was the OTA, Telrad finder, and a 1.25" visual back so I had to supplement the scope with an optical finder (I prefer the 50mm finders for larger scopes), a diagonal (purchased a 2" Orion SCT diagonal used) and a low powered wide field eyepiece (my lowest powered 1.25" is my Meade 24.5mm ep and that gave  81x). Got the Orion DeepView 40mm three element ep as this gives the lowest and brightest views. No need for fancy ep's in a scope with a long focal length!

Epilogue

There are still some 80's scopes which I have set my sights upon that I have still to acquire. The two include Edmund Scientific's 76mm red tubed newtonian on an alt az equatorial (yup it is set at an angle!) and Celestron's Schmidt Newtonian Comet Catcher (Orange Tubed Version). Whether I get these, only time will tell. I only purchase something if I can get it at a good price!!!!!


58 comments:

  1. Actually, my first telescope was a toy with a plastic lens and a fixed magnification of 30x, which I got for Christmas when I was 12. Had it for about 3 years before I got my first real telescope (with my own money) when I was 15 - the Tasco 66TE. Was slightly disappointed when I found out it was 50mm and not 60mm like the other scopes that were widely available. Misplaced the tripod for many years - now I think it might be in my garage (haven't looked there yet!). Keeping my fingers crossed that I'll find it there.

    Now I own 4 classic 60mm scopes having F/11.7 - F/13.3 focal ratios (Sears, J.C. Penney, Meade, Tasco) - need to test them out in a semi-dark sky.

    The only vintage scopes bigger than the 60mm I might be interested in are the 3" or 4.5" Tasco Newtonians, if the price was right.

    In Neil English's book "Classic Telescopes", this is what he says about the Comet Catcher:

    Owners of the Comet Catcher generally reported decent images up to about 100x, with diminishing returns when pushed to powers much beyond this. Still, the little instrument produces lovely, well corrected wide-field views of a raft of deep sky objects and is ideally suited for quick scans of the heavens, hence its name "Comet Catcher"

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  2. Looks like we went down the same path Terry! My first scope was a joke that we purchased from a toy store. It did give decent multi colored views of the moon and it did come with three HM eyepieces lol. I remember improvising and using hollow metal rods to "extend" the length of the tabletop tripod.

    The Comet Catcher is supposed to be a great scope for imaging due to the Schmidt corrector in front that flattens the field. Not sure if it is a good visual scope. I have seen a couple for sale every now and then but prices are a little on the high side.

    I found one of those red tubed Edmunds and like the CC, price is also a little of the high side. So I will wait.

    There is another scope which looks interesting. Its tabletop and it is an ST newtonian with a plate glass (not corrector) up the front. Tasco and Celestron have newer models that have really bad reviews. I am talking aboit the earlier yellow tubed Japanese made ones. I think they were called Comet Seekers or something and come with 0.965" accessories. If I can find a good price for a complete set I might get one. It has a 76mm spherical mirror though so I am not expecting much out of it. Probably similar to theFirstscope and Funscopes.

    If you ever get a chance to try out your vintage scopes maybe you can write a guest blog for me ;)

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  3. My toy scope was bought at Toys R'US. Looked at the moon and planets with it, don't remember much else.

    Heads up - just bought a new "old" scope on Ebay, will have to go pick it up in person on Friday (no shipping). It's a scope whose specs I never thought existed (they don't make this scope with these OTA specifications nowadays), so I was pleasantly surprised when I saw it offered for sale and snapped it up quickly.

    Will let you know what scope this is when I finally have it in my hot little hands.

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  4. Oh, didn't realize that the Celestron Comet Catcher was a Schmidt-Newtonian with a corrector plate at the front. Hope you get one soon - and at a bargain price!

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  5. Guest blog on one (or more) of my vintage scope - I'll think about it.

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  6. Exciting. Love it when you stumble upon a new/old scope. What aperture is this scope and if it is a 60mm what is the focal length? Keep me posted.

    Yup the Comet Catcher is a Schmidt. The Comet Catcher Jr is the one that is a bird jones (i.e. not so good). They made two and both are 5" in diameter. The original Comet Catcher is the one I want. This one also uses 1.25" accessories unlike its Jr brother.

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  7. The seller doesn't ship so I have to go to his house to pick it up. Fortunately he lives in Simi Valley, so I'm grateful that I don't have to pay shipping costs. It's an old scope that has never been used, according to the seller. I'm just hoping it doesn't have defective optics. I'll let you know after I pick it up and test it what type and model scope it is. .

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  8. Get some photos of the scope...and closeups of the important bits ;) Excited for you

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  9. Meade 127NT 5" F/8 Newtonian on an LXD 500A Equatorial Mount (EQ-3). From 1997.

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    1. Nice...but doesn't it have a spherical mirror?

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    2. Yes, but at F/8 it's not a problem. The current 5" F/6.9 (130/900mm) long tube Newts sold by Orion and Sky Watcher have spherical mirrors - that's a problem.

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    3. Spherical mirrors usually max out at about 100x magnification (see Harrington's comments in StarWare), even with long focal lengths due to spherical aberration. For DSO's shouldn't be a problem, but for planets not so good.

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    4. Hmmm - never heard of this flaw in long focal length scopes with spherical mirrors before. I didn't see any problems with planets at magnifications well above 100x with my spherical mirrors. I'll have to read what he says about it.

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    5. Its not a flaw, more so the laws of physics since spherical mirrors, no matter how well made don't bring all the rays to focus at one spot and suffer from spherical aberration

      From WIKIpedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curved_mirror
      Most curved mirrors have a spherical profile. These are the simplest to make, and it is the best shape for general-purpose use. Spherical mirrors, however, suffer from spherical aberration. Parallel rays reflected from such mirrors do not focus to a single point. For parallel rays, such as those coming from a very distant object, a parabolic reflector can do a better job. Such a mirror can focus incoming parallel rays to a much smaller spot than a spherical mirror can.

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    6. Interesting - Matt just told me his 130mm F/5 Newt with parabolic mirror took higher magnifications better than his 130mm F/6.9 Newt with the spherical mirror.

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    7. Parabolic mirrors bring all the rays to focus at a single point, spherical mirrors don't, hence the cap in magnification. The problem is SA versus coma since coma is a non issue in long focal length scopes, but is a big issue with ST scopes.

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    9. Yes - spherical mirrors have the spherical aberration issue, while parabolic mirrors have more of a coma issue. A longer focal length scope helps to alleviate both these problems.

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    10. Just went through the last edition (4th) of Star Ware - Philip's main beef is with the currently available Orion and Sky Watcher 5.1" spherical mirror reflectors with a focal ratio of F/6.9, where he says the magnification limit is about 100x before spherical aberration begins to noticeably degrade/weaken the views.

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    11. Yup that was where I saw that statement. That said though I have had some extraordinarily sharp and contrasty views of the planets in the Orion SpaceProbe 76, which incidentally has a long focal length spherical mirror.

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    12. Yes - the first time I looked through the SpaceProbe/Astromaster 76 with F9.2 and spherical mirror, I couldn't believe how sharp the view was - Jupiter at 70x. Philip says that the Orion XT4.5 which is a 4.5" F/8, maxes out at 120x for best views - I'll need to confirm this with my 4.5" F/7.9 scopes.

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    13. It would be good to debunk the 100x magnification cap Phil set for newtonian's with spherical mirrors. I remember views were pretty sharp right up to the scopes limit of 150x (the 76mm scope)

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    14. Yes, I remember views were pretty good for the planets way above 120x for the Powerseeker 114 as well.

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    15. Wondering if the smaller apertures are not as affected by spherical aberration due to their larger focal lengths. But then again I have never compared a parabolic versus spherical mirror long focal length scope side by side. You should do that for your Bushnell Area and your new Meade at similar magnifications!!!!

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  10. See the link below:

    http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/517756-a-true-5-f8-newtonian-the-meade-127nt/

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  11. Read it already. The mount is probably similar to my Polaris Mount

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  12. The maximum payload weight is 15 lbs, which is identical to the Celestron Omni CG4 mount in terms of load capacity. Both are better than the standard EQ3 mount, which is 12 lbs.

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  13. Omni is good because of the tubular legs. Not sure about the mount you just got due to the stamp aluminium legs. Those are usually the weak link in the EQ3 mounts. When I substituted those dastardly legs with wooden ones, the stability of my old EQ3 mount seemed to improve substantially in terms of the rap test. Any shakes were dampened in 3 or less seconds. With the aluminium ones, the dampening time was double of the above.

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  14. Fortunately with this mount and scope combo, the height is sufficient enough so that I can observe without even extending the legs (keeping them all the way in!), or extending it to an inch or so at most.

    Steel or wood is definitely better, but I can live with aluminum legs (used them on the Versa Go II, EQ1 and the Vixen Mini-Porta).

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    1. So is this going to be your dark sky scope now replacing your Powerseeker 4.5" on EQ mount. Is it much heavier than your current setup?

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    2. Eventually it will - but for now the two 4.5" F/7.9 Newts are still my workhorse dark sky scopes.

      The 5" f/8 Newt will be assigned to urban observing duties. I will not let it sit idle while I use my slightly smaller f/8 Newts for dark sky observing.

      Frankly, I prefer using long tube F/8 Newts over the faster F/5 ones for deep sky work, especially for seeking out the smaller, fainter objects.

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    3. Wait you have two 4.5" f/7.9? I though you only had the one Celestron Powerseeker?

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  15. I mentioned this before if you recall - I got a Meade Polaris EQ 114/900mm Newtonian on an EQ2 mount with three Kellner eyepieces. At only $129, I had to pull the trigger on it. OTA is identical to the Powerseeker 114 except it comes with a good red dot finder and is painted blue. Been taking this scope into dark sky sites lately instead of the Powerseeker 114 - giving the latter a well deserved rest.

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    1. Oh yes I forgot you have the Meade Polaris 114 my bad. That one has the same focal length as the Powerseeker but comes with a sturdier mount.

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  16. Yes - the only problem with this scope is that the dovetail bar that secures the OTA to the EQ2 mount is only 4-5" long, so that the OTA easily sways with a light breeze. I need to use a longer 8" dovetail bar to secure the OTA to the mount with more stability, which is what I have for the Powerseeker 114 + Astromaster CG3 mount combination.

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    1. But you can replace the shorter dovetail bar right. That would solve the problems with the swaying in the breeze. Had an excellent dar sky imaging session last Friday night before the skies opened up on Sunday. Hoping to do a pure visual run with the Cometron this coming Friday if the skies are clear. I think I am ready to take a break from imaging and start sketching in earnest again!!!!

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    2. Yup - I'll use my 8" bar that's currently on the Powerseeker.

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    3. Nice! Have you started pushing your 60mm scopes yet at dark skies? Thinking of starting this weekend with some of the brighter objects....

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    4. Yup - took my Meade 60mm F/11.7 to Malibu yesterday and today. Liked the views I got of M27, M71, M2, M72, NGC 7009, M30.

      First got a taste of what a 60mm refractor could do when I explored the Sagittarius region with it for the CN Review of this scope I did a few years back.

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    5. I remember the views I got through the Meade 226 from Pinos in 2013/2014. While small, the scope did show quite a bit. Did not manage to get up to Saratoga Gap with the 60 this weekend but used it under red zone skies. I think the secret to these scopes is to use them under the darkest skies you can find. They are certainly no slouches when it comes to deep sky!!!!!

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    6. Yes, I'm slowly finding that out. Can't wait to see how many more deep sky stuff the 60mm will be able to show in semi-dark Malibu skies.

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    7. Let's see how deep we can push these babies in the next few wintery mounts when the transparency are at its best!

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    8. Yes - I'll be using the 114mm scope at Malibu as well...

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  17. A coincidence that you ask - I have my 60mm F/11.7 with me and I was on my way to Malibu right after work, since tomorrow is a holiday for me. But I got out of the office a little late and the last bus returns from Malibu at 9pm, so I decided to head back to UCLA, which is where I am right now.

    So no dark sky observing with the 60mm tonight as planned. Maybe tomorrow or Thursday night.

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  18. Definitely have plans for this weekend if I get my hall pass (lol). Want to get back to sketching with my CO60. We should compare notes ;) How's it looking for your numbers? Hitting your year end target?

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  19. That's a term I haven't heard you use in a while. Hope everything is well at the domestic front.

    In my 5 full years of 'serious" observing (which includes logging and sketching objects), this year has been the least productive in terms of new objects observed. Will not hit my year end target that I planned for originally.

    However, it's probably my most interesting year in amateur astronomy overall. No longer am I so interested in the numbers - the quality of the observations are important as well. As well as the human interactions and reaching out to others.

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  20. Good to hear good to hear. Quality is very important. The one thing I do truly miss is observing with you my astro buddy. I feel my sessions are so hollow...feels like I am going on a mission. I too need to reach out more to other astronomers. I feel I have had the best observing sessions when sharing it with someone else, just like the last time I was up at Saratoga Gap during the meteor shower and showing a group of taiwanese youth DSO's through my scopes!!!!!

    I am also trying to break my nasty habit of turning my hobby into a serious study. I find myself pouring over list (again sic!) seeking out fainter fare to image!!! My plan for the new year is to enjoy my sessions. I want to get back to visual and use all my scopes, especially the smaller ones!!!

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  21. Thank you - I'll come back up to the Bay Area sometime soon.

    I have been contributing observing reports in the Astronomy Forum website, as well as reading and reviewing the reports of others. What this has forced me to do is go back to my notes and sketches from previous observations and compare the written descriptions of DSOs from others with my own logged notes and sketches. Sometimes this has revealed flaws in my own previous observations (and sketches) which forced me to re-observe DSOs which I've "seen" before.

    I've also picked up a lot of new DSO by "word-of-mouth" from these online observing reports, especially planetary nebula that I otherwise wouldn't have sought out.

    I also found out that I've seen most of the Herschel 400 - especially the "hardest" objects on that list. Should be able to complete it by spring 2016 - might make it a New Year's Resolution for 2016.

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  22. So that's why I could not find your post. I was looking in the wrong place. I though you used to post at the Cloudy Nights Forum.

    Comparing notes with other is always a good thing. You get an appreciation for how people observe and what they look out for. I used to compare notes with my mate Andrew back in oz since we were both visual astronomers. The only problem is he did not always sketched and most times just took notes.

    I too have seen a fair number of Herschel objects unintentionally since I never started using it as a source for DSO's in the beginning. My source for new material back in oz was Hartung's book and several issues of Deep Sky Magazine by David Eicher

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  23. The Astronomy Forum is a more friendlier place for sharing observing reports, especially for beginners. The Cloudy Nights has a more older and experienced clientele, who have better things to do than reviewing and commenting on other people's observing sessions. They can be very critical and judgmental at times.

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    1. Did not know that. I hate it when people try to put others down. At the end of the day it is all just a hobby to be enjoyed.

      Did you get out with the 60mm? Was out in the backyard on Thursday night with the 60mm. Did not sketch but had really good views of some of the Messier's. Ended up the observing session with the C8 though. Might start sketching through the 60mm in earnest this week while the moon is still waxing.

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  24. Just came back from the Salton Sea with Matt. Brought my Meade Polaris 114 with me. Just a tad darker than Lebec - I would say green zone (rural skies).

    Thin clouds started moving in around 10:30 and that ended the observing session for me - slept on a cot under the skies.

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    1. Good you got out! Sat night was a bust here too...around the same time the clouds showed up. Had a backyard scope session with one of our close family friends here. The kids are interested in some stargazing but the dad is totally into it. Got a Celestron Firstscope 76mm mini dob for the son one Christmas and got our god daughter her first real scope, an Orion 60mm Observer. I think they like the 60mm refractor over the dob as they say the views of the moon and planets are so much sharper!

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  25. Should not have gotten the Celestron Firstscope 76mm for the son. But it would make an amusing gift for an experienced observer to see what he/she can do with it.

    I never used the Firstscope on the moon and planets, cause I knew it wouldn't give good views. Only for DSOs.

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  26. Well problem is he was only interested for a while. The dad says its excellent for spur of the moment observing. His grandad gave hime an EQ mounted 4.5" Celestron Astromaster and that is just sitting there gathering dust.

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  27. I meant I used the Fun Scope. I subsequently bought the Celestron First Scope as well, but never used it for star gazing. I could dig it out from my storeroom and bring it to Malibu, but it doesn't have a tripod thread.

    Astromaster 4.5" - Bird Jones scope. Never actually looked through a BJ scope before.

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  28. I used to enjoy just sitting out on the benches we had at our UCLA apartment and just scanning the skies. Back then my scopes hadn't arrived yet, but even when the bigger ones came, I still used the Celestron Firstscope. Its just so easy to use.

    I tried showing them how to use the EQ mount but they found it just too frustrating for a quick look at the moon. In fact that very said scope is in their storeroom here in my house (they are renting this place to us). Maybe I should get it out and give it a run.

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